- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Summary
Proton Mail, known for its privacy-first email services, faced backlash after CEO Andy Yen praised the Republican Party and its antitrust stance.
The company initially posted and deleted a statement supporting Yen’s comments, later claiming an “internal miscommunication” and reiterating its political neutrality.
Critics question Proton’s impartiality, particularly as it cooperates with Swiss authorities on legal data requests.
Privacy advocates warn that political alignments could undermine trust, especially for Proton’s users—journalists and activists wary of government surveillance under administrations like Trump’s.
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Just when I’m done migrating all my email shit to Proton, the CEO turns out to be a nazi. A classic.
Only way to make sure your email isn’t run by a Nazi is to run it yourself.
Unless you’re a Nazi in which case FUCK OFF
Even for the technically literate, running a mail server is an ongoing nightmare. If you think it’s easy, you’re not doing it right.
Which is why I let my email be run by Nazis.
Seriously I wish I could quit them but it’s too damn hard.
Same. Considered getting a domain for my email, but ended up just switching directly to the protonmail domain. Regretting that now.
Getting your own domain is the best thing you can do, regardless of provider - it means they can’t lock you in anymore.
I gotta get a personal domain just for email, I don’t really want my personal life mixed in with our small business domain; both due to the nature of the products and because I don’t want to dox myself on either side of the work/life gulf. It’s a shame too, because I am actually proud of our garage business.
I was at a similar crossroads when trying to de-google and pulled the trigger on Tuta Mail instead of Proton. Very happy with my decision now after reading this.
Dagnabbit - I went all in on Proton as well. Why is it so hard to find an email provider that respects privacy and isn’t run by people with ‘problematic’ views (i.e. people who wish people like me didn’t exist)
I did some more research and this is no joke:
Globalism is bad, being fair is bad, Europe-first, huh I wonder where we’ve heard this kind of rhetoric before.
Ar eyou saying Proton’s CEO is a Nazi? Far as I can tell he isn’t
Edit: your message is confusing which is why I ask
The EU was initially a good idea, but it got too involved in national politics (anyone remembers the banana guideline that reads like a meme?). I still think, the EU is fine and we should keep it, but it should be a defensive alliance first and foremost and not some fucking merger that is advocating for the rich. Sadly, it’s the rich that have the influence because, well, money and they are going to abuse it.
A call for isolation and autarky is a massive red flag and nothing good will ever happen after that, it always leads to exploitation and violence. The reason CEOs don’t like globalism is because it’s harder to create a monopoly on a global market than regional and capitalism strives for those because it hates competition.
While the comments were not welcome and left a sour taste, we are blowing it a bit out of proportion here.
You don’t get to decide how other people feel and respond to the issue.
They’re just expressing an opinion. Cool it.
I guess their username speaks for itself XD
Person A has an opinion, that is allowed. Person B has opinion, that is not allowed.
Lol I read this thread first, then went to the article and his comments were supportive of the potential for anti-trust legislation under the new administration? That makes him a Nazi? Wtf 😂
This is a huge reason why Lemmy faces an uphill battle in terms of growth, these absolutely batshit insane political takes pollute most threads about newsworthy events, which are in many ways the lifeblood of a content aggregator.
I can’t even count the number of times I’ve seen people say they tried Lemmy for a little while but eventually stopped because they got sick of every thread and community being constantly flooded with Nazi comparisons, accusations of genocide denial, and guillotine the rich stuff.
Like I get it, I really do, but maybe direct some of that righteous anger into some kind of real world activism instead of constantly bitching at anonymous strangers on Lemmy. These people are so outraged and the situation is so dire, and yet they continue to scroll online forums and farm upvotes? Have some ideological consistency ffs, if it’s a matter of life and death, go out there and do something to help.
Doomposting on Lemmy accomplishes nothing, and in fact continues to marginalize one of the few tools that we could potentially have to fight back. If Lemmy were to grow significantly and become a place where people could organize and communicate without being subject to corporate control or censorship, that could potentially do a great deal of good for people IRL. But constantly whining Nazi this, Nazi that is preventing that growth from happening.
Which is why this platform will never have a meaningful growth. But 90% of the user base is happy with that because they enjoy having their opinions validated and not challenged a.k.a. echo chamber.
Well, never say never. It happened once already, in June/July 2023 the userbase grew more than 10x.
And we have seen a nice bump of 2k users in the past week or so as the fediverse has gotten some publicity. Reddit is not an option so we have no choice but to try to make Lemmy better, and I genuinely believe that the federated, decentralized concept can be the solution in so many ways.
Piefed and Mbin are also huge boons to our chances of success. Lemmy may not ever take off, but I expect one of the fediverse content aggregators eventually will. Reddit is simply too shitty of a user experience, they are guaranteed to fail.
Reminds me of another site. It’s why upvotes/downvotes will never work.
That other site is the 6th most visited website in the world, so clearly having upvotes/downvotes doesn’t preclude growth.
Does mbin only have upvotes or am I misremembering? And boosts I guess. That’s not my personal preference but the beauty is we can still access the same content from different platforms.
I migrated literally everything from Gmail around 2021. Gotta tell ya, I feel just about dumb as shit right now. I kind of understand people with those “I bought this before he sieg heiled” bumper stickers on their Teslas.
I was planning to transition everything to proton this month. Now I don’t know what to do.
Tbh I think proton is solid. What the CEO said is just stating a fact of the situation 10 years ago and linking it to now. I don’t believe that’s right but he posted the message 4th of December which (if I’m not mistaken) was before it was clear all the tech CEOs were sucking his dick like we saw around his in inauguration.
I’d still recommend it, the other stuff the CEO says on twitter is all very logical and positive for privacy and against big tech. Unfortunately someone says something that is remotely questionable (not like this guy has outright praised Trump far as I can tell) and sudetly Proton is a dead service not considering all the good they have done and will (probably) continue to do
“If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”
-Desmond Tutu
“If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, but your CEO and official company social media accounts are publically praising the policies of the elephant, the mouse will not appreciate your alleged neutrality.”
-iAmTheTot
Swiss company says “Nazi’s aren’t so bad.”
The more things change the more they stay the same.
When they say they’re “neutral” lets not forget what “neutral” meant during World War II. It meant making a fucking shitload of money at the expense of the rest of Europe.
Also, the geography of Switzerland is how they were able to convince Germany to not invade. A few US Nukes dropped from the sky make their geography a moot fucking point this time around.
Yeah this is a masks off moment for them and people better be paying attention!
Yep, I moved to tuta the day Andy decided to out himself as a MAGA dipshit. The only way I’d go back is if he resigns or gets forced out. At the absolute minimum Andy Yen has shown extremely poor judgement in claiming Republicans are the party concerned with people’s digital rights. That tells me he fundamentally does not know what he’s talking about, and I do not trust Proton under his leadership anymore.
As a side note, If anyone’s looking for a VPN alternative, I highly recommend Mullvad.
What are your thoughts on Tuta so far?
Been using the free tier of Tuta for years now with zero issues. The only thing is they delete your account after 6 months of not logging in (the timer resets every time you log in). Pretty sure that only applies to the free tier, though.
Awesome. Thanks for the insight!
Wow. There’s a whole lot of people here reacting to the headline, and not actually reading the story. That’s important, because the journalist’s headline is (shocker) a huge overstatement.
I was concerned as I’m a Proton user and have been for years, and hard left politically, and despise Trump. But maybe lets just read it before reacting?
Here’s what the CEO posted on Xitter:
10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned.
Yep. That’s a bad look. Doesn’t make a lot of sense either because the Republicans are very much the party of big business and corporate handouts and deregulation in oil, gas, energy, mining, manufacture, industrial farming etc.
Then here’s what Proton’s team said on Reddit as an explanation and expansion of the CEO’s post (and then later deleted):
Here is our official response, also available on the Mastodon post in the screenshot:
Corporate capture of Dems is real. In 2022, we campaigned extensively in the US for anti-trust legislation.
Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidentally has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.
At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.
By working on the front lines of many policy issues, we have seen the shift between Dems and Republicans over the past decade first hand.
Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost.
Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.
First off, I feel like I’ve read from hundreds of Lemmy users total agreement that the Democratic party is captured by corporate interests, so I really doubt any disagreement with that section of Proton’s post. My reaction to the remainder is that it’s not at all praise for the Republican party, just the factual statement of the sad reality that Republicans with their very hard-on-Silicon-Valley rhetoric are more likely to actually reign in the big tech companies than the Democratic party - and Proton is in a good position to have seen this first hand. Zero of the statement praises Trump or praises Republicans, and there is in fact lament that the Democrats didn’t stick harder with their left-wing candidates, even highlighting Bernie. I can see why they deleted it though, it’s office chatter than never should have left the cubicle.
TL;DR: storm in a teacup, I’ll be keeping my Proton mail account.
p.s. yes this is my first Lemmy post. I’m a longtime lurker though. I felt strongly enough about this to make an account to post, as nobody seemed to be actually posting the content of the article - just reacting. Edit: typos & formatting of the quote.
Thank you for the summary.
I knew interacting on Lemmy would be hard but… Common people! Downvoting for a “Thank You”? Reasonable doubt for pulsewidth?
Anyway, pulsewidth PMed me (and probably the other commenters under him) and I think he wanted to point out his good faith. He comes back on the praise point and admits his fault. He is a bit disappointed to have been straight up banned from [email protected] .
Sir, this is Lemmy’s. We don’t allow reason here.
I don’t get why anyone would stay on a site they thought reason wasn’t allowed at.
I’ve been frustrated several times at what I perceive as Lemmy bias that borders extremism, but on the whole it’s perfectly reasonable. Essentially every response to the parent comment agreed with it (I have yet to see someone disagree but perhaps I haven’t scrolled enough).
Lemmy isn’t big enough to feel you need to stay, as Reddit was when comments like this were plentiful.
It’s just an old lame internet joke.
Look, reason my ass
Due respect, your take is obtuse at best or you’re a shill. The company, with current leadership in place, just cannot come back from the first statement, it illustrates a fundamental detachment from objective reality, to the point that you’ve lost any and all credibility, permanently.
In a business based on trust, this is just so clear. Poop
Lololololololololol, bad look.
How about literally right wing propaganda
Nice try, fed.
Then here’s what Proton’s team said on Reddit
are you REALLY asking us to care about their PR damage control? They can literally cherry pick anything and say anything that’s true and try to tie it back into their argument. What stands is his initial heartfelt public statement.
Zero of the statement praises Trump or praises Republicans
Great pick by @realDonaldTrump . 10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned. People forget that the current antitrust actions against Big Tech were started under the first Trump admin.On Twitter (your know, the fascist communication network)
Tagging Trump directly (ohh look at me, I’m a good boy, give me contracts, invite me over)
your definition of Zero and mine are WILDLY different.
I feel like I’ve read from hundreds of Lemmy users total agreement that the Democratic party
Yes, the standard far right argument, no no they’re both bad so this isn’t bad.
of the sad reality that Republicans with their very hard-on-Silicon-Valley rhetoric are more likely to actually
There it is, you’re not even going to sugar coat it, No no, the Republicans WHO ARE DISMANTLING DEI AND MEDIA FACT CHECKING
are going to
ctually reign in the big tech companies (more )than the Democratic party
GTFO, or at least come up with a half reasonable argument. That’s serious not even worth the time to post on…
TL;DR: storm in a teacup, I’ll be keeping my Proton mail account.
If you’re for real, (and I expect you’re just more damage control), sounds like you’re in a good place with like minded friends not worried at all about their safety.
p.s. yes this is my first Lemmy post.
Ahh so more damage control. Gotcha!
Their PR Department can do better
“Tagging Trump” because it was an answer (quote? Not sure what is the xitter term) to the tweer where Trump announced the pick for antitrust.
I do disagree with the person you are answering to, he did praise republicans. He did in a very narrow context and for specific (although opinable) reasons and he praised Trump for having made that specific pick.
Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is.
If by reigning in big tech you mean a cartel style system where companies need to provide funds to Trump to continue existing, sure. But there is no chance that the Republicans will reign in big tech : they are big tech.
You are leaving out the part where Andy Yen said that the tables have turned and the Republicans are now the party of the small people.
Andy Yen’s statement is downright pathetic and misleading. People are right to stir up shit because that’s the only thing corpos understand.
This isn’t a storm in a tea cup, this is the CEO of a company telling us who he really is and people choosing to tell him to get fucked.
Your post reeks of astroturfing.
the Republicans are now the party of the small people
He didn’t. He clearly meant small tech in that context, opposed to big tech\monopolies. Not only this is the only interpretation that makes sense, but he said this himself in a clarifying (personal) reddit comment.
Stop bootlicking
From Andy Yen directly:
“[…]10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today, the tables have completely turned.”
There is no place for interpretation here, the message is clear. If he wants to back pedal because he got slinged shit, so be it, but it doesn’t detract from the fact that he said that the Republicans are now the party of the small guys.
Stop spreading misinformation
I will quote his own words:
Unfortunately that was misinterpreted. If you go back to the original tweet in question, it is clear from the context that that is about “little tech” vs "big tech
I know we are in the internet in 2025, and nobody has the right to clarify their opinion anymore, one strike and you are out, but still.
To me it was obvious from the context to be honest, without even needing his own explanation (that you call backpedaling because good faith is never assumed). But then again, I was not looking for reasons to be outraged.
It’s hilarious though that reporting the authors own thoughts you call misinformation. Instead drawing your own conclusions that are explicitly denied by that person is supposedly objective. If there are no more rules of logic then everything goes.
Also this is not bootlicking, it’s just a timid defense of rationality in the face of people building castles in the air.
Yeah because cozying up buddy buddy with Trump is a castle in the air.
It’s not like the guy was cooked on the spot and spouted an incohenrent sentence.
The guy took the time to tag Donald Trump to show him how he’s not like the other girls , wrote out his message and thought that this was good enough to press send.
There is a lot of deliberate actions that leads to this and takebacksies are a lot more difficult to justify.
In that case, there is a little space for interpretation and Andy Yen is clearly in damage control.
It is not little joe from Arkansas owning a potato farm tweeting that shit, it’s the CEO of a supposedly “neutral” company, that deals in privacy, tagging his buddy Trump. Shit like that can’t get a pass.
Lucky for him, there are enlightened people like you that loves the smell of fresh polish directly from the boot.
Oh no, he tagged trump (did he? Or did he reply to the tweet in which trump announced the antitrust pick?). This 1 second action changes everything. I am glad we have already moved the goalpost. Why tagging trump would change the context of his message it’s really a mystery to me.
Look, for me it’s simple. He has expressed himself in a way that was easy to misinterpret. He clarified his thoughts, I judge him for his thoughts.
You want to judge him for what you think he meant? By no means, go ahead. Just don’t pretend it’s a fact, because it’s literally an opinion. A legitimate one, but still an opinion. The fact is that he said something and clarified that he meant something. Whether he is sincere or not is an opinion, but it doesn’t change the fact.
For the rest I don’t care to convince you or anybody else, I don’t care of Andy Yen either. What I do care is people damaging one of the very few tech companies out there that are positive exceptions to a shitty industry. I think this is way worse than a tweet - even if it praised republicans in a general sense.
Besides this, I also hate this aesthetic of purity. MacCartysm in modern sauce.
He has expressed himself in a way that was easy to misinterpret
Absolutely not. There wasn’t a nuance hard to grasp in Andy Yen’s message. It is a pretty straightforward message.
Look if you want to continue using the service, by all means do, but stop acting like other people telling Proton and Andy Yen to get fucked that they are exaggerating.
Corporations are fucking us over and being outright evil, and when one of their CEO comes out and spout absolute dogshit takes, people like you come out of the woodwork to tell people that it’s fine and people are overreacting. You gain nothing from sucking up to millionaire CEOs that don’t give two shit about you.
What’s the saying, “When someone shows you who they are, trust them the first time”?
Andy Yen showed us who he was and lots of people told him to get fucked.
I think at this point in the USA it’s very clear:
If you’re “politically neutral”, you’re Republican.
I (and very many others) may not agree with the democrats, but since we only got two parties there, it’s damage-control. And any sane person (that would like to have a non-dystopian future) votes against Trump…
Neutrality only ever helps the aggressors. Hitlers Europe strategy was predicated on the Swiss doing nothing in response to the annexation of Austria and occupation of France.
Ok Trumper.
they’re Swiss
The sort of Swiss neutrality that doesn’t care whose teeth the gold is from.
Yeah Proton already burned that bridge. “Politically Neutral” is no longer an option for them.
Again privacy oriented companies that bend to demagogues and desperate profiteers cannot be trusted to handle sensitive data.
Switched from ProtonVPN to Mullvad and ProtonMail to Posteo. Wiped my ProtonDrive. I sleep pretty soundly at night.
Welp… Just paid them 80€ for a year and was in the process of migrating my gmail accounts to it. I guess I just lost 80€ and I’m migrating to somewhere else then…
You should be able to cancel and get a partial refund. Reach out and ask.
I was considering signing up, any alternatives?
I went with mailbox.org for mail, contacts, calendar. Keepass+syncthing for passwords. Still looking for VPN and file storage. I’ve been trying out nextcloud but there is a learning curve to host your own.
deleted by creator
Okay, can someone help me, a tech illiterate, choose a new vpn, email provider, and password manager? I’d really prefer open source.
Vpn: Mullvad
Email: Tuta / tutanota
Password manager: Bitwarden or 1password
DEFINITELY do not go 1password. They took a massive VC investment and it is only a matter of time before they find a way to monetize it. Ignoring the fact they absolutely destroyed the app.
Bitwarden (you can host yourself with vaultwarden) or KeepassXC.
They took a massive VC investment and it is only a matter of time before they find a way to monetize it.
Can you explain this? I’ve been using the app for over 10 years and it’s only gotten better. I haven’t seen any evidence yet that it would suddenly change
Yes, in 2021 they took a $100M investment for a password manager. There’s no planet on which they can justify that valuation without doing things to significantly increase their revenue. https://techcrunch.com/2021/07/27/1password-raises-100m-at-a-2b-valuation/
If you’ve used the product for 10 years like you claim, then you should know very well the many ways in which they’ve gotten worse. A couple obvious ones off the top of my head because I dropped them like a bad habit after I saw that VC “investment”:
- they killed off any ability to purchase a permanent license key and forced people into subscriptions.
- the app has only improved? How are those nested tags working for you? A feature they had 10 years ago that they broke and never brought back.
- Performance on windows has continually gotten worse with every release for the last 8 years.
It might get worse eventually but I disagree with your condescending assertions that it already is. Later.
- they killed off any ability to purchase a permanent license key and forced people into subscriptions.
For I think $75 I used an excellent password manager for literally like 7 years on multiple platforms. As a software engineer I know that wasn’t a small effort to make that happen. I think I got my money’s worth… and out of every digital service I pay for, I find password management most critical and worth paying for
- the app has only improved? How are those nested tags working for you? A feature they had 10 years ago that they broke and never brought back.
Yes it certainly has gotten better on every platform. I don’t know anything about nested tags. I don’t even use non nested tags. But sure the whole company sucks because they removed a feature you liked. Features that get less use get removed, that’s how products work…How has it improved? Well, it’s weird you ask it all aggro like that but yeah, the search, UI, watchtower, browser extensions, ease of adding a new device, cli tool, and many tiny details have improved over the years.
- Performance on windows has continually gotten worse with every release for the last 8 years.
Funny you say that, the app went from barely usable on windows (which I rarely use) to almost as good as Mac. Then right when I switched to Linux they released a very good client on that platform, which was something I didn’t even expect.
I am not quite sure what the motivation is implying I’m lying about how long I’ve used software or my experience with it, but I’m not. Be mad I guess.
Keepass is superior in my experience for passwords
They asked as a “tech illiterate” so I answered what I’d answer a tech illiterate person.
Keepass is good, but it’s not tech illiterate friendly.
VPN: Mullvad
Password manager: Bitwarden
(or if you are advanced user, KeePassXC + Syncthing for full control of your DB)Email: I use Tuta, but I am honestly not that confident in it to recommend it, unlike the above.
Airvpn has port forward i believe.
I really don’t understand why smart people put their eggs in the proton basket.
Big (shady) money rule Switzerland. A Swiss server or company isn’t safer or more trustworthy. Quite the opposite.
Excluding Switzerland from the equation, most in the US don’t have + or - for Switzerland unless it’s banking.
You can never trust any company to put your needs first. A good moral company has at least its founders, private funders, employees, and vendors to look after before they worry about your wants and needs.
Proton was kinda small. 500 employees for a communications company isn’t bad.
Good start.
Proton made a name for itself. WE ARE PRIVACY FIRST and they mostly delivered on that in technical capabilities.
So far, so good.
Then they doxed someone’s IP (french?) due to a remote government order.
Not great, but anyone would do that. There have to be limits. That said, they now clearly play ball with governments.
All the other providers would do the same. They’re now on par with most, but less likely to sell all my data down the river. But my needs are to keep my secrets state secret level. (or so I think)
Then he crawls up Trumps ass.
Now, I’m doing nothing illegal. Nothing immoral. Nothing questionable by the previous administrations standards, but what happens If I start to protest? If I subscribe to democratic news sources, is this jackass going to train an AI on my and hand my name address and phone number to the neo facists running my country now?
We put our eggs wherever we think they can best be served conveniently and for the best price.
You can also choose to not put your eggs anywhere. You can secure your email but not sending any.
we were trying to choose price+convenience+security.
knock one of those legs out, it’s not a table anymore.
