You’re from Alaska, too??!

Yeah, those are good examples. I wasn’t trying to challenge him, but was genuinely curious to know if he’d personally seen shit.

Maybe? I kind of doubt it, though. These things are freaking built like tanks, after all.

Didn’t that already happen?

Yeah, I’d like to.

That actually sounds like a comically fun experience. Thanks for the graphic visual.

Not necessarily mutually exclusive. Always room for a little overlap in that Venn diagram.

Curious to know what horrors you’ve seen?

Do we need to have our commitment to them in writing in the presence of a lawyer in order for them to do the right thing and not follow illegal orders and threaten fellow Americans?

No idea how to get the point across effectively, but some general assurance of a soft landing on/from the side for which they’re putting their personal future at risk would probably be pretty helpful. The more ostracized and hated they feel in these early stages would probably just push them toward the other side, based on a rough risk-reward analysis.

If anyone is actually depending on those sworn/affirmed oaths to keep the troops on their side, then they’re living in a naive fantasy world. Those oaths are beautiful in their intent, but crumble pretty quickly in the harsh reality of viable livelihood and expected future compensation. Sorry, but I’m cynical and in my view loyalty is most easily purchased via material guarantees than ideology. Within limits, of course, and there’s different thresholds of tolerance toward unpalatable orders vs living conditions for everyone.

Well said

May you and peace find each other in a loving embrace, my friend.

I would imagine that a lot of career military are questioning their career paths.

Absolutely.

In what ways are you able and going to support troops who do that to then face court martial? Are you a lawyer willing to go pro bono? Are you willing to house the ones who are discharged, or later released from prison, with few to no job prospects? Do you already or are you planning to donate to service member advocacy groups?

If troops could feel sufficiently supported by the rest of the community when the military’s judicial hammer hangs above their head, it may help them gather the courage to do the thing you’re suggesting they do.

Most troops signed up to do a job with good benefits and gud-nuff pay and hopefully learn some skills, make lifelong friends, and maybe do some interesting or adventurous things in the process. Few of them are very financially well-set and “standing down” from orders they personally deem illegal could ruin their life. Big decision for 18-25 y/o’s to be making and glib comments like “just stand down” kind of gloss over the total psychology of the situation.

I hope you are able to find someplace to relax with fresh air, gentle sunlight, and shapely old trees with birds chirping cheerfully.

Nah, I get that exposed flesh isn’t always comfortable or safe and the practical solution is to just steal the skin of some other animal (or convert crude oil into super soft knit fabrics). I’m just of the personal mindset that if someone is comfortable enough in their own skin that they are completely fine going about their business in the buff, that the rest of society shouldn’t lose its shit and just be like, “k whatever u do u naked person wear sunblock.”

I feel like you think you know me better than you actually do…

This is a case where every other organism on earth, except for maybe the junk bug, looks at humans with a confused air of disdain. Like, why did you manufacture this intractable problem by mandating clothing and shaming nudity in the first place?

They are doing something. Morale and the degree of willingness to carry out orders is huge. Without moral and emotional buy-in from the technicians in the field performing the actual operation, the effectiveness of a task force, no matter how well equipped and trained, is severely diminished. Leadership is going to have a hard time keeping them engaged, especially if leadership itself is feeling the exact same reluctance and disgust.

What you’re asking for is an outright mutiny and that’s not going to happen. Dragging of feet and forgetting certain details of certain orders is the soft mutiny, or malicious compliance, you can hope for, civilian. Armies make or break revolutions based on how much they’re willing to step aside to let the civilian dissidents get their way.

Thank you for your perspective and your service.

Awesome, now I’ll get to ignore TWO things!