Summary
Elon Musk claims his Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is shutting down payments to federal contractors, including a Lutheran charity, asserting it is eliminating corruption.
This suggests DOGE has access to Treasury’s payment systems, though officials have not confirmed the extent.
Senator Ron Wyden warned that DOGE may interfere with Social Security, Medicare, and government contracts.
Musk also called USAID “a criminal organization” that should “die,” amid DOGE’s growing influence over federal financial operations.
If the US government stops paying their bills at a certain point the country is technically defaulting. That’s going to be fun.
Guess you’ll have to use crypto once your dollar is worthless
Or they can use euros. They’re widely accepted.
I don’t think crypto will replace USD as a global currency if USD fails.
Euro or Yuan would
But the people in office would certainly want to replace it with crypto domestically
Yes, they might find a way to force crypto to be used in a case like that - but I think that would be a logistical nightmare and they would probably have to setup some kind of system to make it feasible.
I do suspect the currency of whatever geopolitical entity demands the most economic power in the vacuum left by the U.S. collapsing will become the new global currency, but it’s also possible that this hypothetical world become more economically isolated, such that there is no single accepted global currency.
But yeah, Euro or Yuan would be my guess as well.
You know of a better alternative? Ain’t nobody going to be trading gold like an 1800’s prospector.
Better? No. But why do you think China has been pushing all of the infrastructure projects in Africa, South America, and Eastern Europe? They are ready and waiting for the USD to blow up.
Using crypto as the main currency would require too much of most people. Let’s not forget how many people who need to use currency but who are illiterate, who have trouble using websites or phones, etc. Crypto is not accessible to large segments of the population, and in that sense it is impractical and clearly not better than other currencies.
Let’s also not forget that crypto was specifically designed to prevent monetary policies from being able to influence the currency. Not only is crypto impractical for much of the population, but the government will have fewer tools to stabilize the value of the currency. It’s a nightmare on many fronts.
Literally any currency would be more likely and “better” than crypto. The alternative to crypto is not trading gold, but using other major currencies, like Euros. It’s unclear if the U.S. dollar collapses what currency will replace it, but I suspect that will be determined by geopolitical dominance more than anything else.
If the dollar tanks, crypto’s going with it.
Learn how to spin up a monero node and stick it on the tor network. Only buy bitcoin and wash it with monero for transactions.
Don’t gamble on shitcoins.
Don’t get caught up in mining or NFTs
I don’t really know anything about crypto, but I’ve heard for many years how criminals use it to ransom things. I’ve always thought the “bitcoin is anonymous like cash” angle never made sense, since the entire point of the blockchain is to record ALL of it, and eventually that paper trail is going to tie it to someone. (It sounds like I’m somewhat correct about that since you mention “wash[ing]” it.)
I’ve never heard of monero. How does that work with the washing and whatnot? It’s a whole world I know nothing about, but find interesting.
That’s a long conversation. Please allow me to share a YouTube video that gets to the crux of the issue first. And I can share technical docs afterwards.
However you are 100% correct. Bitcoin is anything but anonymous. XMR/Monero is and has always been fully cryptographic, with the minor issue that if someone controls a node you connect your wallet to, there is metadata that will out you.
I don’t agree with everything this guy says about politics or social issues but he’s correct on netsec issues.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QrHsFZBab4U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nDBHhz00vjI
As far as anonymizing your bitcoin you’ll need to do your own research. But here’s how not to do it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7CD_Nl3iwhE
If you’re gonna do that research do it on an updated tails distro as the previous release was compromised.
Thanks for the great reply! Super interesting stuff. I keep wanting to study up on all this crypto stuff since it seems like it’s not going anywhere at this point. Appreciate the links.
Don’t spend more than 20 bucks to figure out how it all works if you want to tinker. It is not a safe store of wealth. The best usecase is for anonymous and secure transactions.
horse_battery_staple has a more comprehensive comment than this one:
Yeah bitcoin is public, but anonymous (until the very first time you interact with some account in your name). Monero, in short, is like bitcoin but with washing is built into every transaction. It’s far, far from perfect (like all current crypto-currencies), but is a meaningful improvement over Bitcoin (it also supports higher transactions/second).
In my opinion, Bitcoin and Monero are the only crypto-currencies worth engaging with at this time. I haven’t looked into Etherium or Solana, mostly because the idea of ‘decentralized apps running on the chain’ seems like beyond ludicrous scope creep for the problem of ‘minimal trust currency’. The one thing they do right is the Proof of Stake transaction confirmation algorithm, which is much more energy (and CO2) efficient than Proof of Work as used by Bitcoin and Monero.
Then the internet gets shut down and you realize you have nothing.
Bury your reichmarcs in your mattress if you wish. We’re all trying to navigate this with the coping mechanisms we have.
My tor node is accessible outside of the US as is my ability to get there if things need be.
But right now I need a secure way to get funds to people in red states whose finances might be tracked so that they can get the gender affirming care in states that still allow it, or so they can move to states that aren’t actively trying to kill them.
And right now this is the safest way to get them funds that cannot be interfered with or traced by state or federal governments.
I respect your intentions.
You’re right to question the motives of a stranger talking about crypto on the internet. Caution is important but defeatism will kill us all. If you don’t believe in a better world you won’t try for one. And you’ll get what they give you. What all of us need right now is a little more unity and a lot more mutual aid.
Agreed, keep you loved ones close and safe, help who you can when you can.
That’s the brilliance of crypto: it can work even on paper. Without the internet, it’s a major pain in the ass, but trades are still possible by using good old fashioned paper ledgers.
It’s almost like they’re not being fiscally responsible conservatives or something…
Can I ask? Why does Musk suddenly have this authority? “DOGE” isn’t even a real Department, right? And also, Musk hasn’t been elected or officially confirmed for any government position. Why the fuck is he giving orders and leading departments and having any power whatsoever over the U.S. Treasury and such? I don’t understand how this works. Why doesn’t the U.S. have any… I don’t know, safeguards against this sort of shit? It’s absolutely bonkers to watch this unfold from across the pond.
Musk just walked up, said “I’m in charge now” and everyone’s just complying? Please ELI5.
Trump said he’s in charge in a private capacity
The Supreme Court is yet to say it’s not allowed
It takes months if not years for a case to be appealed to the supeme court. They don’t even accept most cases.
Any court federal can issue an order on this if a case is brought. Courts cannot do anything unless asked. That’s kind of how the legal process works. Someone, or some AG will file a suit. Might take a few days or weeks.
It takes months if not years for a case to be appealed to the supeme court. They don’t even accept most cases.
I’m old enough to know how Bush beat Gore
They will keep doing this through the appeals process
Three suits have already been filed arguing DOGE violates the Federal Advisory Committee Act. But like you said, the courts take time and DOGE has only existed for like 10 days.
He doesn’t. However, that is only according to this pesky technicality called “the law”. If the President does not want to follow the law, and appoints people who also do not care for following the law, then the law stops being a thing to look for for authority; and Musk can do this because Trump says he can.
In the short term, expect this to be shut down by the courts. In the medium term, a bunch of these orders will end up in front of the Supreme Court that unironically said “if the president does it, it might be illegal, but he is absolutely immune from prosecution”. Even if the SC come down on the only legally defensible position, Trump could still say “them and what army”
This is 100% a coup by Trump to centralize power in the executive. When staging a coup, “authority” is merely an inconvenience.
Everyone is not “just complying,” two security directors of USAID were dismissed when they tried to stop the musky henchmen.
“DOGE” isn’t even a real Department, right?
Technically, Trump just renamed the United States Digital Service to the United States DOGE Service, then created a child agency within it called the United States DOGE Service Temporary Organization reporting directly to the President (which USDS does technically anyways) and hired Musk as a special government employee as head of that. A special government employee is essentially expected to work less than 130 days in the next year and are normally used to fill short term needs, or as expert topic consultants for specific projects, that sort of thing.
USDS is normally basically IT consultancy for other US departments, which is why he has access to a shocking number of keys to the kingdom, as it were.
And also, Musk hasn’t been elected or officially confirmed for any government position.
You don’t have to be confirmed by the Senate for most government jobs (just a specific named handful of high ranking positions, like the Secretaries of various Cabinet Departments), and he was basically given the highest possible position he could without needing to be confirmed by the Senate.
Why the fuck is he giving orders and leading departments and having any power whatsoever over the U.S. Treasury and such? I don’t understand how this works.
The President has final authority and power over the executive branch and over time increasing power has been placed in the executive branch largely because Congress didn’t want to fight over things every couple of years and the relative stability of a secondary agency staffed with experts was desirable for things like licensing radio bandwidth. USDS isn’t one of these agencies though - it was created by Obama in 2014 to help manage US IT stuff (and basically started from the team that fixed the healthcare.gov site in 2013) and didn’t need to be authorized by Congress because it doesn’t have rulemaking power over anything outside the executive branch and thus doesn’t require Congress to delegate power to it.
As for why he’s giving orders and leading departments, legally he probably shouldn’t be but he’s also been assigned that power by Trump in a way that’s questionably legal. There are at least 3 lawsuits that have been filed arguing that it’s technically an advisory committee and in violation of the Federal Advisory Committee Act. I could totally see a federal judge agreeing with that, but it would eventually go to SCOTUS and we know who’s dick they sucked to get there.
TL;DR: DOGE exists because it’s an existing department (US Digital Service) renamed DOGE, Musk was hired under that department in basically the highest spot that wouldn’t require Senate confirmation and because that department is essentially cross-departmental IT consultancy it gives him access to a shocking amount of federal IT resources. He isn’t being stopped because everyone involved ultimately reports to Trump and Trump has told him to do it. There are at least three lawsuits filed claiming the United States DOGE Service Temporary Organization is in violation of the Federal Advisory Committee Act, but since it’s only existed for like 10 days the courts haven’t really had a chance to even hear arguments about it yet.
Thanks for taking the time. So I guess it is all legal and Musk somehow does have all this authority… It’s bonkers, right? Doesn’t it somehow feel like the U.S. government has been running relatively well for a long time based solely on… the expectation of decency and norms, promises and gentleman’s agreements? There aren’t actual laws, checks or balances to avoid any of this, but it was sort of assumed that nobody in these positions would be pure evil. But then, once they’re in, they can do whatever they want.
Courts are slow everywhere, that’s why it’s a good idea to have some rules and roadblocks, so that someone can’t just start dismantling everything on day one and courts have time to catch up before shit hits the fan.
So I guess it is all legal
It’s probably really not and the lawsuits probably have a good argument regarding the FACA, but courts are slow and Trump/Musk are basically steamrolling everything they can. An agency not given any delegated power from Congress functionally taking over and commanding agencies that do have delegated power from Congress probably has more than one means of legal attack against it. But courts are slow and any staff that challenge the Musk bulldozer have been relieved of their positions and escorted from their offices.
And way too much of the public is cheering it on.
And way too much of the public is cheering it on.
The most mind-boggling part imho. Trump and Musk doing all this shit doesn’t surprise me at all. Trump especially has been very clear about the things he wanted to do, Project 2025 wasn’t a secret either, and Musk… well, he’s been fascist-adjacent for a long time with his support for right-wingers the world over… But the fact that normal people can look at this and believe it will make their country better somehow is insane to me.
We do have safeguards. They’re all being removed one by one by the party in charge. I’m guessing that some just comply because they figure it’s inevitable. On the other hand we have a long history of allowing people in power to do what they want. Bush walked into Iraq, we’ve had many military actions in many countries but haven’t declared war since world war II.
Or maybe Musk is just pushing the boundaries before he’s deported. LOL.
EDIT: changed WWIII to the intended WWII.
Apropos typo on the WW3 part.
LOL. Oops. Should I leave it?
Yes :) hopefully your foreshadowing doesn’t come true however
Because our government is filled with a bunch of geriatric FUCKS who don’t give a shit and whose whole personality is ‘fuck you I got mine’. There are checks and balances and this could be stopped if anyone was fucking useful to any capacity. We shouldn’t have to rise up in the streets or deal with this as that’s the whole god damn point of the gov. But because we allowed corporate interests to infiltrate and line the pockets of these assholes, along with there being no term limits, this is what we get.
This is a coup
Can you guys maybe do something about this? You all have guns right, I thought that was the entire point of that part of the Constitution.
The point of that was to prevent the need for a standing military. The thought was a standing military would lead to tyranny
Texas used to have gun free towns (sort of, when you entered you left your gun with the sheriff)
Political parties were also a big nono, the runner up was supposed to be VP
and which side was interested in guns and militancy, and which side was against guns and militancy?
Unfortunately the wrong people are the ones with guns, because most of my fellow leftists in this country still believe in the myth that you don’t need a gun if you’re going to live in a country full of people with mental health issues and lack of access to affordable treatment.
the leftists seem to be good with guns, it’s the liberals and progressives who have trouble with them
(to be fair, the left is dead in America)
And for people who don’t like that word:
Regulatory capture of the entire United States government.
Yet, no one’s doing anything about it or can do anything. These people are all powerful now. The White House, the House, the Senate, SCOTUS, Fed. Everything belongs to the Republican Party and they can do whatever, whenever. No checks and balances.
I reject that defeatist attitude. It’s time for tax strike and general strike and mass protests across the country as next step
I got laid off two weeks ago am I supposed to just not work lol, my parents live with me:\
I think we can pretty much skip the first step, wouldn’t do us much good. Protests planned at every state capital on the 5th.
Not paying contractors, a plan straight out of the Trump playbook.
I pray they’re dumb enough to stop payments to Lockheed it Raytheon. Problem might solve itself
Mess with the military industrial complex. A wise plan for the Twits, Musk and Trump.
At what point do we declare this a coup? This isn’t what even the most diehard conservatives out there voted for, I don’t understand how this isn’t considered a hostile takeover.
They’re in too deep to admit how badly they obviously fucked up. Shit is gonna have to actually reach the ugly bitter end, leaving them no other possible explanation to try to hide behind. In the meantime, this must be what it felt like for the citizens of Rome as it burned.
It is not until it affects them on a personal level they make that realization. That is how far the empathy of the average conservative voter reaches.
Well, in essence and at its purest level the difference in thinking between Leftwing and Rightwing is the difference between “I want people to have a better life” and “I want to have a better life”.
All the political complexity above that comes from the different possible ways to achieve either end and from how one end partly overlaps with the other (i.e. for many a general improvement of people’s lifes gets translated into a personal improvement).
So yeah, conservatives are just “What’s in it for me” types who believe in a different method to maximize their personal upside than the Fascists. In fact many American-style Liberals (the political version of “Liberal” in the US, not to be confused with those who believe in the actual Liberal Ideology) are also rightwingers who believe in yet another method for personal upside improvement.
Well, in essence and at its purest level the difference in thinking between Leftwing and Rightwing is the difference between “I want people to have a better life” and “I want to have a better life”.
Not even that. The difference is between “I want people to have a better life (objectively speaking).” and “I want to have a better life (as compared to those people).” As long as their lives are better when compared to those people, the conservatives are satisfied. Even if everyone’s lives, including their own, get objectively worse.
I was going to say I partly disagree and that the “those people” element depends on the Society (i.e. different in different countries) but after thinking about it, I actually agree that wanting to be “comparativelly better” rather than better in absolute is a pretty general thing for rightwingers everywhere, and what changes in the countries I lived in is mainly they way they go about doing it (i.e. in England that overwhelmingly materialises in people spending a lot of time and effort in keeping those below them in the “prosperity ladder” from climbing up, whilst in The Netherlands there’s a lot less of that).
So, yeah, thanks for pointing that out.
“I want to have a better life” does not encapsulate their zero sum game way of thinking. They ignore the possibility of a rising tide lifting all boats. It’s more appropriate to say “I want a better life than everyone I don’t like (our group).” Conservatives create an in group and out group that drives much of their agenda.
And here I am, too damn poor to afford a fiddle…
This isn’t even what the most diehard conservatives out there voted for
Fucking yes.
All conservatives at the tables with all these nazis asking who voted in all the nazis.
At this point your party has folded. Keep saying “but not meeeee, I’m a real conservative!” All you want.
Hungarian here, whose face got eaten by the leopards.
Political illiteracy is a serious problem, and so is the access to information. They actually thought the crime rates were up, because the very few news outlets they’re exposed to likes to uplift a few cases with scary headlines, often making anniversary reports on some crimes. They actually thought, that the opposition was “too far-left”, because pundits told them so, and they learned in school the real nazis did evil things for the sole sake of evil, thus people that say they want to eliminate crime, and have crime statistics must not be far-right.
This is not for to excuse their behavior, but to explain it. Maybe can even lead to an end of this cycle.
It’s stressing me out to no end. I think the average person doesn’t even know this is currently happening.
Very rural area dweller, here, two towns over doing errands. Just spoke with an elderly Mango Mussolini voter/Faux News consumer who already regrets his choice… I commented it’s time to stop voting to hurt others and vote for taxpayer dollars to help the common people, rather than billionaires. He agreed.
Not to shit on the guy too hard, but it’s a bit late on that front. I hope he’s around/remembers the next time someone courts his vote.
I don’t follow politics. I voted for trump because it was badass when he said fight fight fight. Elon’s a genius, I’m sure he’s gonna make it better.
These are real takes I’ve heard out there in the world.
It’s being censored.
It doesn’t even need to be. So many of my friends have already decided to tune out completely because they’re sick of hearing about the nonstop shit.
I’m also wanting to tune out, but I feel that it’s irresponsible to not follow what’s happening.
This is the correct answer. They want you to tune out.
When this happens in a developing country we laugh at their politics.
When it happens in America, no one bats an eye
Americans still think their country is somehow different even though it’s still a developing country in many respects.
Not just country nations, reminder the regions with the strongest identities are either the oldest, important, or Mormon. We are very much kn the same state the late western Roman empire was in, where they had African Romance, Brithonic Romance, and Gaulic Romance we have Californian, Texan, and Northestern the east coast tracks to eastern Mediterranean.
Disintegrating. Crumbling.
Oh no I am absolutely laughing at America
USA is the new banana republic.
Now, arm up
Now, it is happening right now: https://snyder.substack.com/p/the-logic-of-destruction
Good to know that our elected officials in the legislative branch are no longer able to create laws that are actually enacted.
This shit is outside the scope of the presidency.
Oh please start halting payments to government contractors. This guy starts holding payments to Lockheed Martin and Raytheon he’s going to wind up real Dead real quick
Or Boeing. Boeing certainly seems to not have an issue with taking care of people who are causing them problems.
How much can a hitman really cost?!
1, maybe 2 bananas
There’s always bananas in the money stand, Michael.
Or Blackrock
With the way things are going, I fully expect them to make a beneficial deal that includes Elon because fuck everything
Yep, mercenaries get rowdy when they don’t get paid, just ask Constantinopole.
So… SpaceX is one of the contractors not being paid right? Right?
L-m-a-o roflmao even
You guys think we’re gonna get tax returns this year?
I bet we don’t.
And still not a peep from anyone in position to stop it
deleted by creator
Looking at exit polls and post election polls it was the economy. Trump was very direct in his promise to lower prices. Harris ran over a hundred different messaging lines which clouded her economic message. Then she got caught on national TV defending Biden’s economy and saying nothing would change.
Yeah. IMO democrats refusing to acknowledge the state of the economy is what tipped the scale. You’d have to be a complete moron to believe Trump had any solutions for the economy, but he at least acknowledged that economically there’s something wrong. Harris on the other hand doubled down on Biden’s economic message of sticking your head in the sand and going “the economy is good”.
Blame the election system, not the voters. Its not a democracy
What a shitty election system. Anyway, i’ll vote for the racist diaper boy.
I hate the mango man but he won both the popular vote and electoral vote. How is that the fault of the system? The Dems put up a losing candidate that polled abysmally when she was running in the original primaries against Biden. To many in the center, the Dems had also swung too far left for their own flavor of progressive ideology. Put those two things together and they didn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the election.
Edit: Thanks for the downvotes? I’m just stating facts. Kamala was NOT a likeable candidate for many on the left and center, so they simply didn’t vote. This led to cheeto in charge winning both the PV and EC. The rest of the world isn’t nearly as progressive as most folks on Lemmy.
The system is stupid because you only have two parties so if one of them is useless then you’re screwed. But that’s the voter’s fault if they voted for third party candidates and actually organized themselves in such a way that they all voted for the same third party candidate then they could actually achieve something.
He won the popular vote this time because people didn’t vote. Because there was no viable candidate for the left.
Again thats a problem with democracy. He’s not the candidate that the majority of people want. He won because we dont have a democracy
The US isnt good for their money. Creditors should demand their debts or threaten legal consequences in the form of international sanctions
US owns most of its own debt.
Musk is himself a giant government contractor via Space X and Starlink. Odds are he’s just trying to clear the board to funnel the money to his businesses. Especially when it comes to defense money!
Lmfaooooo I just turned down a contractor position at NASA Ames. Applied for a full time position, went through interviews and even a facility tour, just to be offered part time temp to hire. Get fucked lmaooo
So, time to stop paying federal students loans and income taxes, eh?
Edit: student loans would be more difficult because loan default but the W4 can be adjusted so no income is deducted for Federal taxes. One would just have to be sure to put that money aside in a savings account
to pay next year with no current impact in this tax year. Looks like there would have to be some quarterly payments or one would otherwise incur penalties. So it’d be a bit tricky to pull off cleanly. Maybe someone better at tax code could figure out a way to just do this quarterly.Oops that was a paperwork fuck up. I’m sorry IRS, I’ll hand over the amount owed from my savings.
And life continues.
The IRS doesn’t want to prosecute people, it wants to get paid. A massive tax strike would be very effective because the IRS is getting short staffed under a trump administration. So they might actually take a few years to get to you. This is, of course, contingent on you having that money in savings and being willing to pay them when they show up for it.
This isn’t legal advice, I’m not a lawyer, just an old guy who pays attention, if you’re going to do this I highly recommend not responding or voting this comment. (It’s evidence)
